soul searching......
Late last night I was contemplating the sickness that is Polygyny. I'm calling it a sickness now. Because the people that I've come into contact that are practicing this are truly sick. Whatever was beautiful about polygyny way back when............has been polluted and misinterpreted until all that exists are horny men, desperate women and neglected children.
Yes. I believe that.
So anyways.....I was thinking of a few of my close friends and I was thinking about my situation. I realized that when you are asked to accomodate your husbands other wife or wives.......this becomes a problem. Do you realize that? Listen, sister.......your marriage to your husband is about YOU and HIM. You shouldn't have to hear about ur sick co wife......or the pregnant co wife......or sit waiting while ur hubby talks on the phone.......or sit waiting while he runs to his other house to check on the kids..........your marriage should be about the TWO of you.
Once the hubby starts involving you in the process of the other wife....or the goings on of the other wife.......you open yourself up to a hornets nest. And to protect your marriage, you have to protect yourself. A man having two wives is like buying cheaper glass for the windows......1/4 inch thick instead of the 1/2 inch. Watch out for stones......cuz these babies break easily!
Now last night I said to myself.......it's the woman who makes the rules. I should have made FIRM rules. I should have been super bitch. But I was an enabler. Don't be like I was. If you said no phone calls in YOUR house......be in his face!! Don't let it go! If Hubby is telling you the kids need him and he'll be back in an hour......don't say.....okay honey! Say....NO! Don't give excuses. Just say No!
I think that I should google some stuff about good marriages. And whether or not your husband has another wife, your marriage should follow the same principles. What I can say right now is that both parties come to a marriage bringing their parts. It needs to equal 100%. Some people work with less......some don't. But I'll tell you something........if you both don't bring it to the table, eventually it will show itself to you.
Like a lot of women......I picked up the slack. I was able. I was willing. So I did that. But you know what? There is a line that gets crossed and when you start feeling jittery, teary, exhausted or just not right.....that's when you've got to step back and look at the situation.
I took a long time to look at my marriage. I was willing to carry it all on my shoulders if the hubbex would only love me. Isnt' that desperate? I don't know why I did that.....or why I enabled him such power........but what I know now is that I'm better than that. I'm worth more. My life is worth more than love that is given grudgingly. Perhaps that isn't even love....but rather, pity.
I've been really soul searching myself these last few days and finding some hidden surprises inside me. I am still here. I can see that freshness behind the tired eyes.....I can see loyalty and dedication.
I see a butterfly.
And I'm really looking forward to the coming days. It's been a long winter, friends........
posted by Safa at 12:25 PM
39 Comments:
Safa: I envy you being in Canada for spring - I truly miss the change of the seasons - love spring - love it when the snow melts and the spring flowering bulbs are already busting their nut putting on a wonderful display - seeing the first robin - the smell as things start to grow again - the smell of green. LOVE it. Take care and enjoy these days.
1:35 PM
You are such a strong, wise woman. I believe that most of us stick it out for a reason. Should the end of the marriage come, at least you know you have tried and done your bit... sometimes even more than that.
You sound like you are ready for the rest of your life and that you won't take nonsense from no man...:-)))
That is great, Alhamdullilah.
2:02 PM
As Salaamu Alaikum Sweet Safa:
I'm with you all the way except for the kids. Children have a right on their father.
Sadly, the husbands probably use the kids as an excuse.
I probably feel this way due to my childhood. I had a part-time father. But he was always available if we really needed him. His wife never begrudged us him.
5:00 PM
I have a question...Safa, since you have several friends (albeit blog friends, maybe more) that are in polygamous marriages...I am wondering: are there women who are SERIOUSLY happy in polygamous marriages? I mean, honestly, seriously happy. And not in the sense that they think that this is what Allah wants, or in the sense that their man likes it so they will, but I mean that they wake up everyday loving it? Because I am sensing no. And I am curious as to what can be done to help the women who are suffering. I may be totally wrong...but is it common that the marriages come about such as yours, without a group discussion?
6:19 PM
I've read posts from women on a yahoo group that I belong to about polygyny that truly seem happy in polygyny. Sometimes it kind of seems too happy though, almost fake. Maybe that's because of my own experience...that I find it hard to see how anyone could enjoy a life like this. But I know that the way my life is isn't the way that polygyny was intended to be. So maybe if it's done right people can be happy.
7:18 PM
Safa, I think you did what many women would do in your shoes. Look, we want the marriage to work. He says he'll change; we have hope. He says there's a light at the end of the tunnel; we want to believe because that would be best (easiest). Your husband gave many indicators that things would change. I think as a reader I saw the turning point being when he went to Egypt and said that the kids and you could be replaced. That's when I thought: This man is beyond hope.
As for women who say they're happy: I don't believe it. I don't mean to say that it is open deception. I believe that they have to be more positive in order to endure. It's human nature. It's like that job that sucks...you can't quit it; you need it; you must not start to complain or it opens up the wound. Not only that, most of the victims of polygamy (and I do mean victims) seem to be convertees. What a dilemma: You love your husband; you've changed your faith and want to/need to embrace it whole-heartedly. Then he throws you this curve ball. If you reject it you reject an element of your (new) faith. Then you reject your spouse. Are there kids involved? If so, then single motherhood is on the way. Did you go to college? Do you have a career? Talk about several curve balls... I suspect it's easier for many to say, "Yes, I embrace this," rather than rock all those boats at once.
8:46 PM
cairo/our rewards: thank you both for your responses, that is exactly what I was thinking...especially the part regarding the happiness seeming fake. I only say that because the women all seem to have the same talking points, the same "exciting" positive views on polygamy.
11:19 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.
3:16 AM
Welcome to the world pretty butterfly!
Safa, when you talk about polygony being beautiful way back then, in yorn, how do you know it was?
I am being so bold to put out a link to Ali Sina's writings, an ex-muslim, on the state of Muhammeds polygonous household. I know it doesn't look pretty. Exactly why I am questioning your belief it was pretty back in yorn.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/mariyah.htm
3:18 AM
Very thought provoking post.
It spawned some questions for me:
1. What will these guys face in the Hereafter?
2. Is there forgiveness in this life for their wrong doing in their marriages?
3. Will Allah forgive them?
4. What must they do to obtain forgiveness?
5. Must we also forgive them in order to help pave their way to Jannah?
I do agree there is sickness involved in these marriages. There is no name for it because the ailments differ in each situation and with each person.
I agree about the enabler part except for the children. If he has children they do need his attention. But if the other wife uses the children to get him to come home, then she is wrong.
I have been sick. I have been an enabler. Thank God I am in a situation to easily break free from it.
Love should not hurt.
5:02 AM
I am glad you are finally finding yourself. You have been there all along, you just had to let yourself come out. We knew you could do it.
Glad spring is here for you!
Hugs!
Anisah
8:32 AM
Salaam Alaikum,
Polygyny may have been the norm back in "days of yore" but we know it was not such a great thing for the women involved. Look at Ibrahim, Sarah and Hagar. Correct me if I am wrong but that situation was so bad that Sarah wanted Hagar cast out into the desert! And look at the Prophet's (saw) situation. No one can deny that polygyny has always been a terrible trial for women. But, and this is the big "but", there was a time when it may have served a purpose and was seen as an answer to the problems of widows and orphans. EVEN then, I suspect it was not a pretty picture.
I think women who proclaim happiness in polygyny for the most part are simply trying to put a positive spin on their lives -- and I don't blame them. I know that while I never trumpted the notions of how great it was to be in polygyny, I certainly tried to accept it or at least talk myself into thinking I accepted it.
Love you,
PM
11:05 AM
Like PM said, I'm sure the good ole days had even more women looks at it practically. After all, if men really did marry widows and other "disadvantaged" women (based on the norms of the time) then I'm sure some women were grateful. I think humans are naturally jealous creatures, so no doubt there was friction. And while the Prophet Mohamed might have set an example for polygamy, who's to say that men of his time actually observed as he did?
11:51 AM
in response to Cairogal comment (not picking on you personally dear sister, you just prompted me to think about something)
We can say the same thing about sisters in monogamous marriages, too. I know plenty of sisters who stay in the marriage for similar reasons. And there are plenty of brothers who do not obey Allah (swt) in regard to their one and only wife.
Who is anyone to say that someone's happiness seems fake or forced. Just because we can't wrap our minds around it, or don't want it for ourselves? P does work for some sisters, folks! Unfortunately, like everyone said, many sisters are extremely unhappy and many brothers are jerks :) It doesn't work for everyone. It is simply an Islamic "option" not a fard requirement!!!
12:05 PM
"We can say the same thing about sisters in monogamous marriages, too."
Absolutely, Safiyyah. I would counter that, though, by saying crappy monogamous marriages are more socially accepted. If a woman feels stuck in polygamy and chooses to stay she really ends up having to sell people (including herself) on why it's a good thing. You might replace the word "polygamy" with some other word and do the same.
You make a good point about not being able to get our head around it. I think that is very true in the case of the sect in Texas. With those women, they are raised in polygamy. For almost all of them it is their reality. That doesn't mean that some aren't happy w/ it. I would think a women raised in those circumstances would be more accepting of polygamy than those who are not.
12:18 PM
You're a wonderful woman Safa, and I love you, but I really don't understand why you let Kafira hang out around here. She can have free speech on her own blog. It's entirely your choice. But if I were in your shoes, I would not be giving her a forum.
Unfortunately I don't have anything intelligent to add to the discussion... you ladies are wiser than I am in these matters.
My great great great grandmother was a first wife back in the days when the main Mormon church practiced polygamy. When she was 30 or 35, she travelled a couple hundred miles with her husband to pick up wife #2. She died a few months later. In my family, they say it was a broken heart. Allahu alim.
3:28 PM
SubhanAllah you deserve happiness and gifts and a man who will love you for every part of you. You are an amazing woman, mashAllah.
There is so much good advice in this post, so much wonderful advice and deep insight.
You are worth so much Safa, so much.
9:36 PM
Thanks PM for correcting my "yorn", I made the same mistake as Rachel in Friends, where I got it from in the first place..duh me!
PM, I think we see things very much the same, but come at it from complete opposite directions.
This might make your hair stand up in your back, but I think we are very alike.
I know, you know, that I said some harsh words to you. For that I am sorry. I think about it often and this is my official apology for that. I am sorry.
It was totally uncalled for and was as you pointed out, written on a bad day.
I think in real life I would really like you....
10:46 AM
Don't worry about it Kafira. As far as I am concerned it's water under the bridge and over the dam -- apology accepted. I suspect we do share some similar views but have different approaches. And I respect Safa's right to administrate her blog the way she sees fit, so have not called for her to ostracize you. Regardless of our differences, you obviously have supported Safa in breaking free from her abuse and I thank you for that.
BTW, I love the Delacroix painting you use as your avatar. It's a great icon for the power of women.
Peace,
PM
10:57 AM
Like many bloggers, I really had enough of Kafira's hard reality views on life. Even one time calling her out on a blog post... http://needcopingmechanisms.blogspot.com/search?q=Kafira
....but I've always grudgingly respected her opposite point of views.
I've never wanted everyone on my blog to be patting my back and telling me "malish, malish".....I've enjoyed the different views and even the different ways of expressing yourselves.......
The trolls are staying.........
3:12 PM
It's not about her being a troll, it's about her fundamentally disrespecting our religion and what we believe in. I don't even necessarily think she is a bad person. But I totally respect your right to do as you see fit. It's your blog, after all.
5:11 PM
Salamu Alaikum safa, I just got back from my trip and I'm stopping by to say hello.
I cannot speak from experience, and I know it would hurt to have your husband do all the things you mentioned. I have to say it is virtually impossible, in my opinion, to not do those things. THE nature of polygny is that it is very close. Your lives ARE intertwined and the man is being pulled in all directions. When his wife is sick(severely or whatever)or his kids truly need him he has to go...just as he would need to come to you and your children.
I know that trying to forget he other family exists can be a good tool to cope with the pain, but every single person ivolved has rights on the man. Too bad he doesn't know the huge burden and responsibility he is taking on for a little more booty.
7:15 AM
Thank you for your forgiveness PM! I did not think you asked Safa to ostracize me.
The wrongs I said to you have been weighing heavy on my heart for long and it just came out here when I saw your nick and post.
I truly am sorry and I am applauding and am much impressed by your person and what you are writing about on net, an most of all your personal generosity that I see in blogs here and there.
I learn whilst I live...sigh
Thank you Safa for letting the Norwegian Troll stay.
Norway is the origin of trolls, so I guess it was an easy outfit to put on :-)
I would have been worried for the rest of my life had I not known that you and yours got to safety. Thank you for the link too, a post that has gone unnoticed by me..hehe
As far as I know I have never used Safa's blog do discuss islam from my point of view.
I linked to Ali Sina reluctantly due to the fact that I do have a life outside of net, and to write about the episode, recorded by saheeh hadith and ayat in the quran, where Muhammed house of wives went into full chaos and he threatened to divorce all of his wifes for his right to have intercourse with his female slaves would take me too long.
I found this episode on point and something to ponder about if polygony was ever a beauty for women.
I thought that Safa can by a swoosh of her hand remove the link if she finds it insulting.
I also thought about it from the side of me being cut off from Safa's blog, but the incident in Muhammed's life so clearly show that it was a struggle back then even. I know she is safe now, so I could take a block of me in this blog.
Since even Aisha questioned Muhammed after this incident with her "Your God indeed rushes in coming to your aid!" I thought me less bold then her when linking.
I thank again both ladies for their grace in dealing with the troll. I have always been a work in progress and you have both contributed in what I can only hope is change for the better...
8:12 AM
Kafira: I enjoy and value your perspective!
Safa: may Allah (swt) reward you!
11:52 AM
Awww, thank you for that Safiyyah, I was starting to feel like the female version of Grawp here, the fullblood Trollbrother of Hagrid in Harry Potter.
Chained not by rope and a tree but by passwords due to being a brute who talks jibberish, eats muslimahs for breakfast and then burp it up in Safas blog :-)
You really warmed my heart. I can only reward you with a big Cyberhug!
1:32 AM
Your wisdom is shining through, but you would have never gotten here without the trials and tribulations that you went through. It is a shame that your statement is true "...misinterpreted until all that exists are horny men, desperate women and neglected children." I am shamed to say that I was one, although I didn't want to be. I never wanted to hurt my wife with polygamy, but she enabled me with soft words and not reciprocating to me her true feelings in a way that I could hear them. You know as a woman how to stand up to something even if you don't stand up for much. People will only do what you allow them to do to you, sadly to say even if they don't mean it. If you let them they will press on fulfilling their desires at the expense of your happiness.
In my case I felt that it could have all ended if she stood her ground and established her boundaries early on. It would have ended if she only looked me in the eyes and said "Muhammad Stop" I would have much rather heard those words than feel the pain that I have felt these last couple of months.
I am inclined to polygamy, but I am more inclined to keep my word, but in that is a balance a fence that is walked on. I say no and I mean no, but the desire remains and if let free to choose two it most likely will. I wouldn't trade polygamy for my family though no matter how enticing. I wouldn't trade it for my wife, but if I could have it all, my heart would incline to having it all.
I can't speak for all men. All I know is that I never meant to hurt my wife. I never meant to bring the topic into our lives. I never meant to fantasize about it and making it all work just like on Big Love. The nurturing the caring the family. That was the dream, but not the reality.
Safa speaks a ton of wisdom in this post. YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW what he is calling her. You don't want to know the promises. You don't want to know how everything is going, but you DO KNOW how you want to be treated. You do know the standards that you have set in your home. You do know your boundaries. You have to decide if you can live with P or not. If you can't say you can't and don't pussyfoot around about it. To put it simply being anything less than horrifically blunt and vociferous will fall on deaf ears and get twisted.
I wanted it for quite some time. From my earliest memories of intimacy I thought about P. So if you say "honey if that is what you really want" when you mean "are you fucking nuts" then I can guarantee you he is going to hear "Gee honey I think that's great I can't wait to meet her" So you have to be extremely BLUNT in these circumstances and stand your ground.
Even with all of my advice I can honestly say it is only a reflection of me, but I am a man and most of you aren't. If you think because he loves me he wouldn't do it. Think again because he loves you doesn't mean he can't love someone else too. You may have children, possibly more than one and you know for sure you don't love each of them exactly the same. So you have to be realistic, because he has a little voice in his head with a loudspeaker telling him how great this is going to be.
I would have never have done the things that I did had our communication were clearer "for me" and boundaries were set and maintained.
Peace
Sorry for the long response.
11:20 AM
As Salaamu Alaikum Sweet Safa:
Brother Muhammad: with all due respect, gimme a break! You wrote:
I never wanted to hurt my wife with polygamy, but she enabled me with soft words and not reciprocating to me her true feelings in a way that I could hear them. You know as a woman how to stand up to something even if you don't stand up for much. People will only do what you allow them to do to you, sadly to say even if they don't mean it. If you let them they will press on fulfilling their desires at the expense of your happiness. In my case I felt that it could have all ended if she stood her ground and established her boundaries early on. It would have ended if she only looked me in the eyes and said "Muhammad Stop" I would have much rather heard those words than feel the pain that I have felt these last couple of months.
Brother: your nafs and your decisions are your own personal responsibility. You are the man. You are the imam of your house. What was your wife supposed to do? According to Islam, you are permitted this. What were her choices? Divorce, struggle, financial burden, etc.?
Brother, I do not mean to offend or disrespect you. But this attitude in the brothers is exactly part of the problem!!!!!
i.e., "sorry I hurt you baby, but you should have spoken up louder"
12:13 PM
I appreciate your frankness, Mohamed, but I am inclined to agree w/ Safiyah. While good communication is the cornerstone of every relationship (and your wife should have stomped her feet in protest), I do not believe it is my job as a wife to create boundaries for my husband. A good moral sense is what creates boundaries for most of us. After all, I don't steal from others, not because there are boundaries and laws preventing me from doing so, but because my morality dictates that it is wrong to take what is not mine. I don't maintain a loyal relationship w/ my spouse because he requires it of me. I do it because my moral compass says that marriage is a committment.
I've seen you use the word "fantasy" on more than one occasion to describe your attraction to polygamy. I must admit that this is what's wrong w/ polygamy (among other things). Men have this fantasy about having multiple women. There are women who are disabled; on public assistance for their lives as a result; women who can't feed themselves...why can't you fulfill your fantasy w/ one of them?
12:26 PM
LOL Safiyyah!
But Muhammad, you do have to admit that you sound like you're passing the buck and once again not taking complete responsibility for your faults and issues. I imagine you don't mean to come across that way but it does sound a bit like blaming the woman again.
Salaam Alaikum,
PM
12:29 PM
See, I liked what he said here...."To put it simply being anything less than horrifically blunt and vociferous will fall on deaf ears and get twisted.".......cuz I did that. I just didn't look him in the eyes and say "STOP!"
But like the others have said....Muhammad has come across as putting some of this off on his wife......and I think he's talking specifically about HIS own situation, perhaps not about others. If I remember correctly from the blog, his wife set the whole 2nd wife thing up....spent TONS of time talking to the prospective wife on the phone and made some sort of statement that if Muhammad was going to have another wife, he could only have her friend?? Not sure on all the details, but it was a bit much.
I'm glad you commented, Muhammad......is your blog closed down now?
1:14 PM
Yeah, brother Muhammad ... I left a comment on your blog. Next day I checked back to follow up. The blog was private!!!!!!! Ya ... I thought it was me! Something I said. You know that people who care about you are going to tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. As for some commenters who just want to be oppositional .... Insha Allah you can tell the difference.
4:19 PM
My blog is back on line and I will be posting something of worth soon.
Saffiyah don't think that because I closed my blog was because of comments that I didn't want to hear. My feelings aren't that flighty. I debated polygamy for years on beliefnet and endured quite a bit of abuse so that isn't the reason that it shut down.
Many of you mentioned passing the buck,and much of that maybe true. CG said something about stealing, well the major difference here is that stealing would still be haram, where as P isn't.
When I told my wife that I may have been obsessed but I never initiated any contact with anyone. EVER she said that sounds like a rapist saying that I didn't rape anyone today. I went looking but I couldn't find anyone so I didn't rape anyone don't I get brownie points for that? I understand where she is coming from.
When that person cuts you off on the highway and goes on about their merry way they have no recollection of how you are affected by it.
The truth is I didn't remember all of the little things that I did. Had I read about them I would probably join the chorus of many of you and say how awful and selfish this man is.
Safa is correct but that isn't the whole story. I forgot the rest of the story so I couldn't correct it. It wasn't until my problems started happening that it all came rolling back in. Primarily with my wife's help. "You don't remember doing X" No I didn't actually.
The marriage started out like this. I declared that I have a pension for polygamy, but because of it my last marriage ended badly so I will choose not to entertain it in this marriage.
At some point I don't know when that statement changed to I will only do it if you open that door and bring it in yourself.
Then I started debating the issue on beliefnet 2005 sometime. Miraj knows debating with her was fun.
Early 2006 Big Love came out and the obsession with P was back into full swing. I blogged, I debated, I chatted it up with other P folks. I desperately searched for someone making it work that is when I found Martin, Karen, and Lisa's site polygamynow. Yay I thought I could do it too.
Everything else I forgot or chose not to see.
I never remembered the fact that if my wife wanted to spend time with me she would have to debate about P too. I never remembered the fact that I would come home and go straight to the computer and start chatting. I never remembered the fact that P became a singular train of thought in my head, and that that obsession made me place an ad online somewhere (not seriously but that wouldn't stand up in a court of law) that caused my wife to seize the day. This led her to desire control over the fact that our marriage was seemingly spinning out of control. So this is why she said that it could only be someone she chose, no other reason.
I know this translates to Muhammad you asshole, but it gets better.
So then she decides on a sister and the ordeal begins OFFICIALLY. So now autopilot begins. There is crying and emotions and a terrible time and finally it ends and we close the door on it. We are officially done. Yay, but at the same time not done. Now all of that ordeal and feelings I don't remember. I didn't remember the emotional ordeal of even not stopping the freight train of P. Even after an incredible emotional event happened, something that most women/couples wouldn't want happen to them and something that I would hate to have someone go through. Even then after that I was on the computer obsessing P.
However it was done. We ended it and the roller coaster was over, but somehow it raised it's ugly head again. I don't know how I don't remember the details. Most probably I was saying stuff in reference to it, most likely. Still Idealizing it or something I'm sure. I really just don't remember though how it restarted.
I had a little resolve at saying no, but if you take a 30 year alcoholic and ask him does he want this brandy he will hold back as long as he can before grabbing it and guzzling it down. So the second time I don't know what happened but we were back on the roller coaster and I was over here. Go figure. I was more reserved this time within myself, but all of the feelings remained the same. All of her feelings and all of mine. Angst, frustration and misery at not being able to pull it all together or walk away gracefully. So it ended badly just as it started and ended the first time.
I have conceded not to do it again, just like I did the first time only this time it is an unmentionable, because I want my family more than I want P, but if there were an situation that would come along and it all work out I would probably do it all over again, making different mistakes. I.E my wife begging me to please take sister x as a second wife. First I would think that she was finally done with me and say no , no thank you, but if she pressed I'm sure I would fold. I would never go looking for someone to be a second wife. I just wouldn't do that.
My first marriage ended over P. My second marriage is severely on the rocks over P and may end completely. I have resolved not to get married a third time so if my current marriage can't be salvaged then I will just have to have booty calls and deal with the consequences later, cause I'm not getting married again. However I bounce back and forth between that and going up against Allah. I really don't want to be doing the latter.
If this marriage ended it would not take away the desire for P. If it stays together it won't take it away either the only thing that makes a difference is what I do with my desire. I CHOOSE to be with my wife and only my wife.
There is no passing the buck really. If I could have both I would, I would revel in the possibility of having two happy wives, it would be a challenge, as if just being married at all wasn't enough of one.
Oh yeah the argument of the classes or cases of women is really not a challenge because this world is teeming with women in those categories, and I would seek one out and marry one, just to defeat that argument, IF I were actively or passively looking. You know the whole super Muslim complex. There is always someone that needs to be saved.
I started commenting on Safa's blog to give her a man's perspective and all of you really cause you are not men and you don't think like them.
P is addictive with or without fantasy attached. I've met men married 50 years that think about it all the time. I don't really think that you can fully understand that a person with that weakness has to go through to cope without it. If I were a gamer or a player then I would have never gotten married and just kept two girlfriends all the time, because they are cheaper and easily replaced, but shame on me for being cursed with a sense of responsibility and duty.
I have a sense of responsibility and duty to my family yes. I am not obligated to be responsible for anyone else yes. So be happy with what you have. Well I am happy with what I have, but if tempted with more and if it could be held together then I would take more and try to hold it together. It doesn't make me less of a person, but this is what goes through a man's head, and this is only one perspective.
I'm a good husband, a faithful husband and a good father so I've been told by both my wives current and ex-wife. I'm a good ex-husband.
My weakness for P will always be with me, always. I will always choose my family and marriage over P but if enticed with it by my wife being ok with it then I would have some serious problems saying no. Like a drunk I can say no to the bottle that is way across town, I can say no to the bottle that is across the street, but put that bottle in front of me and we are going to have problems.
I can say no and I have before, I can hold myself together, but that isn't going to stop me wanting it. So what it really boils down to is it acceptable to be with a man that wants it and the only reason that he isn't doing it is because he made you a promise and is holding to it, or would you rather him not want it at all?
The truth is it is a hard debatable fact. It is halaal, so the only thing keeping you from it in a relationship is your being completely truthful with each other. If it is your weakness there really is no one on your side with this thing. It is just that thing that is there a whole chocolate cake. It is just sitting there and you can have it. No one is saying that you can't have it. Not even Allah. It is just there and everyone is telling you you can take it, but it comes at a cost. Because this is the case it is extremely easy to deceive yourself about it. Because Allah said that it is something that you CAN do but please use caution and everyone else advises against it or again please use caution. It really just boils down to the person and like I said P is an addiction and an easy one at that. The second wife always says yes so that is NEVER a serious factor. It really all boils down to your word and how you prioritize your ability to be a husband and father.
I'm talking in circles now. So I will hush and blog later.
8:41 PM
Salaams Brother Muhammad:
You're not an asshole.
P is a complex matter.
Thanks for sharing all of that.
9:56 PM
To get away from the Muhammad bashing, I read a book by a woman from an upper class background in Iran growing up just before the Islamic revolution. She was raised in her father's harem, and her father had 4 wives. Its not written from any of the wives' perspectives, but she claims her mother and the others were happier in a polygynous situation than they would be in monogamy. Why? Because their husband was not their equal or their friend, he was their lord and master who had little relationship with them other than calling on them periodically for their "wifely" duties. Their lives were so circumscribed, that without their co-wives they would have little socialization, so were pleased to have built in friends. Resentment came from power plays, but not really lover's jealousy. I imagine the FLDS women are much like that, the shared husband is more like a prophet figure, so their friends, 'lovers' and equals are their co-wives, not husband. I like the show Big Love, but even within the fictional show (sorry Muhammad, back to you) which tries to portray a more modern type marriage coping with polygyny, it doesn't work that great, and so far there have been several occassions where the first wife was miserable with the situation and threatened to leave it. So people who have a notion of their husband as their helpmeet and their equal, I don't see how it could possibly work. I don't even really understand the whole "if he can afford it, he is allowed to take another wife." Under the Western concept of marriage, the money belongs to the unit, so "he" doesn't have income to spend on someone else. I know under Islam supposedly its more separate, but both from bloggers (where it seems an awful lot of women contribute their earnings to the household, and even sometimes are pressured for contributions to the OTHER wife) and real life, the model of the money really being family money is common.
9:35 AM
Personally I don't see any "Muhammad bashing" going on here. I think he has an interesting contribution and I appreciate it.
Salaam,
PM
10:04 AM
Sorry, bashing was hyperbolic. I meant more, changing the topic from Muhammad's personal situation...
10:29 AM
I'm a fan of the show Big Love, but I think it's interesting how different people perceive the message. Mohamed mentioned, and I'm paraphrasing here, that Big Love reignited his interest in polygamy. While I do like that show, I don't get a very positive message about polygamy. Almost every single episode carries a plot or subplot about how someone is hurt by polygamy. The first wife is perptually in angst over this-a storyline they regularly revisit. She married him for love, after all, and multiple wives were not in the picture. The 2nd and 3rd wives willingly enter into this marriage knowning the score. The husband married the 2nd wife as somewhat of a politcal play (not only was she his wife's nurse while she battled cancer, but she is also the daughter of his arch enemy), and the 3rd wife was done out of lust. The kids from the first marriage all suffer psychologically from polygamy. While the father/husband is portrayed as loving, he's also portrayed as greedy in relation to his business and his ongoing want for another wife.
I suppose if you want to see polygamy work then "Big Love" might provide some of those warm, cozy moments in which there is harmony between the wives and w/ the whole family. I suppose I don't see polygamy really working (from a female perspective), so the show simply reaffirms that for me.
11:42 AM
Wow what a change of topic throughout the comments. Safa you ARE a butterfly and I'm happy you're free dear.
(now since no one who knows me in real life will ever see this comment i will continue on a revelation)
Muhammad thanks for the man prospective becuz i never thought of it all that way... makes me a bit ashamed really to tease my hubby with something he might have always longed for but knew he wasn't strong enough to actaully do when i asked him point blank to marry my friend in need with three kids. (though having spent the previous 5 years of the marriage threatening to poison my co-wife if he ever dared ;) ) So now I really AM ashamed and thank Allah he was man enough to refuse my odd request. It would have been nice for me and her but for him it would have been torture and maybe in the end we would have resented each other because time and finances would have been stretched. My hubby did make a good point that if you can afford to marry another woman who is in need why not just donate the money to the woman and get reward of charity without causing such strife.
Anyways maybe I'm over my poly thing too because it was only for her sake really that I wanted it. Now that she is leaving I know for sure I wont be accepting any Jane Bland Sister to be #2. Oh heck no. Subhan'Allah men and women are soo different.
Interesting story about the haram and the whole man of authority but not close idea. I myself couldn't stand it but i guess if that's what you have at the time you just deal with it.
Didn't mean to spill my guts honest it just all came pouring out..lets keep this hush hush eh?
5:06 PM
Safa, sad to hear you had to endure so much suffering and pain - but very glad that you have found your way out..
You said:
"My life is worth more than love that is given grudgingly. Perhaps that isn't even love....but rather, pity."
You are very right. You deserve a spouse that truly cares. I hope you will find that one day..
As for polygyny - I think the main thing is that the husband has to have loads of fear from God. Our ego blinds us all very easily - and we are lead astray quickly. A man who feel himself king of his castle with wives tailoring at his needs .. that's a receipe for mental and physical abuse.
1:52 PM
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