Knowing where to stand....
I spoke to the BIL again today to find out what happened. My BIL was so straightforward for a change...that it was totally refreshing. But nothing could prepare me for the message he had for me from the Hubbex.....
"I want nothing to do with her or the children....you tell her that!!"
I sort of gulped when I heard that....WTH?? But I told the BIL that the hubbex wanting nothing to do with me is fine.....I knew that our marriage was in peril since my husband decided to marry MM against my wishes. But his children? His children?
~~~~
So then I did the unspeakable.....I called the hubbex. I told him I was calling because I had two questions. I asked him if he planned on paying support to his children....
"No, I don't"
I asked him how he could say that...that our religion is very clear on our obligations and our responsibilities....and that he has so much, can he not give his children some? But what he said then shocked me more than anything.....
"I'm not muslim anymore....I don't follow the same religion as you....forget that you ever knew me.....listen Safa! Oh...wait a sec, I didn't mean that.....listen Sharon......tell the kids I'm dead!!"
OMG....could it get worse? Yes it could.
I told him that his children still need a father and that he should reconsider the crazy things that he's saying.....that the children will grow up and know that their father abandoned them......and he said to me.....
"Don't tell me any of your bullshit....what other question did you have for me??"
So I paused for a second and then I said...
"Could you please divorce me now?"
And then strangely.....he paused as well........until finally.....
"No, I won't. You are in Canada now...manage it yourself"
Click.
~~~~
Let me say for everyone.....you can't be farther from the religion of islam than this. The religion that I converted to almost 19 years ago doesn't include this behaviour of my husband. I was taught islam at the hand of a wonderful egyptian sister......and I know that even she would not approve of this.....
Hazbee Allah wa na3man wakeel!
~~~~
So where do I stand? After much thinking.....and even a little crying for my precious children.....I know that Allah will provide for me. I will take comfort in that. And really? I have my children.....so I've already won, hands down. I will NOT be going to Egypt any time soon. I will NOT be sending my children there. Whenever the sucker dies......we will inherit what is rightfully ours. So whatever.
But will I will keep pushing the family for is for him to utter the divorce. Oh yes........subhanAllah! I feel like I'm in this old movie and my character is being played by Faten Hammama!
It seems very possible that if pushed too far......that I just might be another sister divorced by text message.........
posted by Safa at 6:44 PM
31 Comments:
OMG - Safa - my heart is hurting for you and your precious children. Nothing like having the rug pulled out from under you. What a viscious thing to say to you. I know that you will 'recover' from this, in shaa allah Allah will guide and protect your children and they will be strong enough to also 'recover' from this horrendous injustice. I am truly at a loss for words - they all seem so trite - know that my heart and my prayers are with you. And never ever forget that you are never ever alone - Allah is always right there beside you - his hand outstretched always ready to 'carry' you. Sure do wish I was there for you - but soon enough I will be there camping on your sofa. Take care of yourself and your precious gifts from Allah. Do NOT lose faith - this is one of those tests that you CAN ace. Just put out your hand and hang on.
7:46 PM
Hasbi-Allah indeed...wow...just when you think he can't go much lower...and he does!
What words could I say to offer you anything...I mean, bratwurst comes to mind (you have to laugh at that one girl!) looool....I'm so proud of you that you've still got a fantastic sense of humour amidst the pain you have to be feeling. Alhamdulillah, Safa...you're made of good stuff masha Allah. :)
My heart goes out to the children, and to you too, and I pray all the time for you and for the kids.
I do know that these guys tend to go towards amazing amounts of drama, and I'm inclined to say that another tune could be sung within the next few weeks. He's reacting..and bouncing..and the fact that he WOULDNT divorce you suggests to me that he's not finished. Otherwise, khalas, you'd be done. Which, for you, I would think might be almost welcomed - just so you can finally get OFF this rollercoaster - but it'll happen in Allah's timing..not our own...but I do pray for you that it will be sooner than later.
As for you being divorced by sms...well, not much different than by msn is it? LOL. I find myself wondering what our beloved prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would think of this? Is this how the men of Islam honor their women? Even in divorce, there is supposed to be honor..respect..faithfulness to the commands of Allah..
Yeah. Bratwurst. :P
11:45 PM
WOW....well maybe you should stay married to him legally because then you would get his inheritance. What an ass. Insha'Allah Allah will take care of him. So need to stress about things you can not change, right? I am just in shock. His denial of Islam and his denial of his children... Wow....Habibti I am sorry it seems as if everytime I call you about one of my stupid issues you have bigger ones that you hide just to tend to me. Thanks for that. I love you.
12:25 AM
yes what a moron.i gulped too when i read these words.i mean all i can say is that he is out of his mind.
2:52 AM
Assalam alaikum, subhanAllah. All I think is Al Hamdulillah you got out of Egypt!! and away from him. He must have major mental problems. I wish you and your children the best, may Allah protect you always. Maybe you should tell the older ones what happened?
3:56 AM
Text talaq -- LOL! Sure, why not? ;)
I am sorry for you and the children but nothing surprises me. I have suspected all along that the hubbex has some major control issues. Going back to him marrying you when you were so young and shaping you into the perfect wife to serve him. He simply cannpt cope with the fact that he no longer controls you. Since he is unable to practice self-critique -- and within his own cultural framework doesn't think he has done anything wrong anyway -- he will take the control over the situation in the only way he can. And this is the result.
Pick yourself up, sweet Safa, and keep on your righteous path. Your children will be fine in the long run because they will take their cues from their amazing mama, al hamdulillah.
BTW, Faten Hammama was the aunt of one of my colleagues ;)
Love you,
PM
4:31 AM
I may be wrong, but I realy think its all just a ploy to get him out of paying child support. If he says he is not muslim, then he doesnt have to follow the muslim ways. He can just say "Nope, I am not a muslim" then when everything dies out, he will then resume being a muslim and say that he was going through some mental issues at the time he said it. I think he is still trying to hold on, and this is just another one of his attempts to get you back. He probably thinks you will say "Hummm, he is really sick, he is losing his mind, maybe I should reconsider what I have done" and you will come back to him. I feel for you sis, I really do, you need his financial support, its tough raising kids on one salary, believe me I did it for a long time, and I only had two children. I would wait him out. Would you still get his inherintence if you are divorced? And if he denounces the children?
6:50 AM
Uggh. What a loser. I think this is the enormous weight of the reality of his actions coming down on his head and it is painful and escaping is easier. "It's all your fault! F*** you all!" is easier than "What THE HELL have I done?"
9:35 AM
i was so shocked. to disobey or ignore the rules is one thing. to outright deny them...what can you say? My heart just stopped and then started aching for you and the kids. It sounds like things became pretty clear for you though about where you and kids stand with him and whether or not you should bother going to egypt. it's a painful realization, but at least now you know.
12:04 PM
Oh man what a punch to the gut! Does his family realize he's denying Islam? Maybe a well worded text to them?
I'm so glad you are in Canada and safely away from this nutjob. I can't believe he would reject his children like that but that goes with the nutjob part I guess.
Hugs out to you hon, hang in there! You are an amazingly strong woman and you will get through this and those wonderful kids of yours will see how rational people live.
2:23 PM
if he has publically declared that he not muslim, doesn't that mean your marriage is no longer valid (since a muslim woman cannot be married to a non-muslim man, right)? i would ask someone about that. that might put a different light on things as far as needing an islamic divorce...
3:13 PM
Whoa....was your BIL around him when you made the call? To denouce his religion, disown his children...what kind of man does that? I guess we already know the answer to that one.
4:00 PM
Assalamu `alaykum,
I am a bit confused... I thought he signed the legal papers for divorce in Canada, didn't he?
Because if he did, then you are also divorced Islamically.
Am I missing something?
6:23 PM
WHAT A JERK
Ok now that is over. We all know he is no good. Just sit tight cause all this is just his way of hurting you like you hurt him. He is angry, mad, upset, hurt, depressed, and shocked!!!
once he is over these feelings and he is back in Canada trust me his words and actions will take a turn.
He will once again be back trying to be a huge fitnah in ur life with the kids. HE will once again try to be all in ur life.
All you can do is get a divorce get a court order to pay support and try to get the government to garnish his wages.
Why worry about what you can get once he dies. I do not understand that . This man could out live all of you. Long life is not promised to anyone. Unless he is on his death bed why even think about that.
YOU have to do what YOU need to do. BOTTON LINE is YOU have to support ur family. YOu have to go to school, and get a skill that will allow you to support ur family. Do not allow urself to think of him. You have more important things to do and think about.
I prayed for u in Mekkah and Medinah. U are stronger than you ever thought u were. I have seen u grow girl I am so proud of you.
8:59 PM
whooooooooooo cares about his money...Safa love, you can't even go there right now...you're managing alhamdulillah, once the housing is sorted out (insha Allah in the near future) you'll be in a better position...and if you start working on your degree, bit by bit, shway shwaya, you'll get there.
Over time, it's entirely possible that as your son grows up, that your husband (or his family) will disperse some funds...but for now, I think you have to accept that you gained control of your life, you left, and now the kids are honestly yours. Alhamdulillah :)
You'll all be okay...honest. It'll be a struggle, but you're surrounded by good people and day by day, despite the hurt he's inflicted (and still trying to inflict) you get to wake up and decide how to spend your day...how to feel, how to raise your children. I call you and hear more laughter going on in that home of yours these days than ever before..despite the issues at hand. Just keep reaching out, do what you can (paperwork-wise) and your life WILL keep improving insha Allah..look at it this way - it couldn't have gotten a whole lot worse :P
Love you for the sake of Allah...and cuz you're such a terrific person! *huggggs*
11:35 PM
Oh Safa, I am so happy for you you got to leave this man! What a blessing for you and your children not be with him any more really.
6:38 AM
Saf Saf:
i want to say that i am least shocked by this. Hubbex has, in my private opinion, long been a hypocrite (many a dinners/conversations with our familias have proven this). so here's what i say: ishta ya man-you want to be a dick then enjoy the childless/marriageless life you now lead and let your money comfort you onthose long long looooonnnnngg nights!
you, on the other hand, are on the verge of shocking me. The safa i knew/know is bloody bull headed with life. so i think you should first and foremost work on making a new life for yourself. while i think that getting the divorce is impo (for your own freedom), i also don't see you needing to jump into another marriage any time soon. so if he won't divorce now, he will eventually. in teh meantime don't let that become your life. i say figure out what you want and what your good at and get out there and have a life. so priorities in order: divorce is impo but takes time. money and having your own economic freedom is both essential and a good start to moving on (partic since dumbass seems to be intent on economic strangulation). three, start making canada home (which i am sure your girls want) and forget egypt for now (the govt in egypt is largely still stuck in the dark ages when men were thought to be the only and the supreme. don't take the chance b/c hubbex will in fact screw you over if you attempt-too many stories of that kind to detail here). lastly, start thinking bigger and beyond this. where do you want to be and what do you want to have in the next 5 years? divorce, again, should not be the main emphasis there.
work your magic ms. safa b/c i distinctly remember you excelling in the impossible.
7:55 AM
I think if anyone would understand Hubbex well....it would have to be my new commenter...Angie.
She was raised as a child around my family and had a great many debates with the Hubbex. Always trying to stick him with a point...that he always would wiggle out of. Yes...surely Allah sends signs for those who see!
I'm still full of life....but injured. At the moment, the most important thing to me after my children is going back to school. I'm working on that now.
The divorce isn't a big thing. I'm not in any hurry. (at least not yet! *wink *wink!!)
I'm fine with the fact that he won't be paying support....this will harm him more than it harms us.
I'm not going to Egypt. Not on my agenda.
Canada is home for us now. We all know that. Even the 13 yr old has grudgingly accepted that.
And you know what is even better??
I'm happy. For surely Allah will help me as I struggle for my children.....freedom is precious!
Loving you all....
8:36 AM
Safa, I really feel for your children. What he is doing will hurt them. Someday he may want to be a father (or maybe just try to control them), and they'll ask him where the hell he was? He'll probably have lots of excuses, like my little one's father.
I am sooo proud of you that you are free from this controlling kelb! I hate that women have to "ask for a divorce". I think if he signed the divorce papers, that should be both divorces. I am glad that I don't have to worry about such a system anymore.
I hope that someday you find a great guy. I'm not ready for that yet, and I've been alone almost 6 years. So it does take time. Enjoy your time with your kids.
Hugs to all of you!
Anisah
9:06 AM
Assalamo aleikom,
Ya Allah Safa, alhamdolellah ten thousand times for getting you and your kids out of control of this man. Everything you write only proves you've made the right decision.
I would advise as the rest: live your life knowing he might not pay a dime. This is the reality, but do try to fight him in court. And please, such a man doesn't need to divorce you, you divorce him. Do it in Canada court and it's valid.
*hugz*
10:57 AM
Oh I have a wonderful idea.....at the moment I am having his "marriage certificate" with MM sent to me...
And when I have it in my hands....then...and only then....will I call him and give him this option.....
"Either you divorce me easily....or I take this marriage certificate to court and divorce you for adultery......YOU CHOOSE!"
I won't be the first muslim to divorce on the grounds of adultery......
And if even that doesn't work.....and he hangs up for the umpteenth time........
I'll just take my time and decide what I'm going to do.
I
AM
GETTING
DIVORCED!
The only question is time.....and I have plenty of it.
3:18 PM
i read this the day you wrote it but it was painful. not only to know that was a punch in the gut for you but would be traumatic if the children knew of this. whether he is a crappy man, husband, father is neither here nor there now. youre away from the trap. but your children will suffer if they ever know what a callous ass their father is. a man who can turn his back on his children for other wives and because his first and most faithful wife decided enough was enough.
fight from canada safa. forget going to egypt. do what you have to do here. leave him there to make his way through his own muck.
but the thing is, i know this is still very painful on a very basic level. raw, hurt feelings dont heal overnight or just because you left one country for another. you fought hard for your marriage. now youre fighting hard for your rights and the rights of your children.
dont ever back down from him. i guess he ran off to egy thinking that nothing can be done to him there regarding the divorce and money.
2:23 PM
Wow. I mean everyone's been saying how all that he does is unIslamic...but then he goes and says he's not Muslim anymore? There's no joking in that. Doesn't that automatically constitute you being divorced since a Muslimah can't be married to a non-Muslim?
Does BIL know? I'd be sure to tell him if he doesn't.
And I'm confused...was Sharon your name before you converted?
I feel so bad for your children. But at least they have such a great mother. You'll be able to more than compensate for their pitiful excuse of a father. Maybe you should refer to him like some of my other friends that have children with piece o' crap men: "the donor." Because the title father gives him way too much respect. And at this point, he doesn't deserve the respect that I give my best pair of shoes!
4:46 PM
oh youre so right, they do have a great mother. she is better to them then he could have ever been in his entire life. next time he calls you sharon you tell him YOURE still a muslim no matter what he has decided to do.
7:22 PM
slm aleikum, woow he really did want to hurt you and his own children, but he hurted himself and made a fool of himself, or he's in his denial period, or the witch bewitched him? Either way leave it to Allah and don't expect anything from him. If you can be 100 % independent from him, he has no control whatsoever.
But why do you call him? don't give him a chance to hurt you, let him crawl, plead, anything, don't ask him anything, ma sha Allah Safa you have come so far, you don't need anything from him, you are to kind to tell him about his islamic duties, he should know by himself, and he knows as he says he's no longer a muslim ........
dua and salaam for you,
um omar
I
9:35 AM
Hey Safa,
I've been meaning to suggest to you some interesting writings by Qasim Amin because he wrote quite a bit about polgyny and about how it should be phased out of practice in Islam.
You can read some of it here
11:29 AM
Safa I read this and I was in utter shock, so I can only imagine how you felt after hearing those words from him.
I feel like that was just anger from him. And hurt maybe. I don't think he meant it. I think that once he accepts everything he will soften up certainly towards the fact that he needs to be a father inshaAllah, and hopefully towards knowing he needs to pay child support. But that actually is tied in with being a father anyway. And about him not being Muslim, I just don't believe any of it. I hope I am right, that this is just a phase for him. I think the part where he called you Safa and then said, oh sorry, Sharon, was an indicator that it was just angry sarcasm. Allahu alim.
3:19 PM
I will take the liberty of answering the 3rd question ORAU asked--the answer to your question is yes it was...
3:41 AM
Safa, I'm sorry for your pain and the pain of your children, This man is as one person said.. a donor, not a father.. in fact he is not even a man in my opinion. Whatever the worst thing you can call an Egyptian male is probably too good for this waste of his father's sperm and his mother's viable egg. (Sorry, venting.. but he really is such a donkey's butt!)
Whatever you do though Safa, please do not delay your filing for divorce and child support here in Canada (as he is likely counting on that). Copies of the papers can be sent to his last known Canadian address, his Canadian business address and/or his last known Egyptian address.. speak to your lawyer about this. You need to follow through with the divorce and child support here so that if he ever does return to Canada, that he will be legally obligated to make payment to you for the children. And if he still refuses to pay, you can get the government on his butt about it. Not that they can do a heck of alot.. it is difficult to garnishee someone's wages when they are owner of a company if he can fudge the books to show that he is basically making nothing. If he has Canadian bank accounts possibly they can be frozen. If he has a Canadian driver's license and he returns to Canada and tries to renew it, they can block him from that due to outstanding child support payments (I think this is valid in most if not all Canadian provinces and territories now), thus he would not be able to legally drive in Canada (at least an inconvenience for him).
Also my thought is that Egypt loves official looking government issued papers. Could not an official divorce decree from Canada be presented to the Egyptian authorities along with letters of affidavits, (notarized of course cause they love their official looking papers in Egypt) indicating how he married an already married woman - her husband could maybe write this affidavit on your behalf - and how he abandoned your children emotionally and financially, help to push the Egyptian government to grant a divorce as well (in absentia of you being in Egypt and at your request as opposed to his)? Isn't there something about 4months.. that if he abandons you for 4 months then a divorce can be granted at the request of the woman? I may have my information wrong as it's been awhile since I was reading all I could about Islam, Islamic marriages, and Egyptian laws regarding marriage (back when I was considering taking the plunge with an Egyptian).
One more thing.. you did an interview in Canada for a newspaper.. I wonder if an Egyptian newspaper or magazine would be interested in your story as well? The whole story.. from his marrying without your knowledge and to a woman that wasn't yet legally divorced, how you tried to make it work at first but that you were not receiving 'equal time, etc', through to the eventual breakdown of the marriage, your return to your home country and his return to Egypt, his denouncement of Islam and his children and refusal to pay child support. (You can weigh out this idea.. it may cause the family to get behind you in order to save face and push him into providing some support but then again it may cause more problems than what its worth.)
Just thoughts Safa. I don't believe he should get away with this crap he's dishing out. I think he is intimidating you or at least trying to so that you will back off and stop making demands of him.. demands that are rightfully yours to make on behalf of your children. It's not like you are asking him to support you.. you are asking him to contribute to the support of his children.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your children Safa. There comes a time when you have to walk away and say screw it.. what's done is done, it is just too much to deal with and it takes too much time and energy to continue fighting. This is not yet that time. Keep fighting the good fight for your children's sake. I am so very proud of you.
Sorry for the small novel. I've never been one to be short and sweet with my rants.. just ask jana z. LOL
Hugz,
Karen
7:03 AM
Alright I went and did some research on your behalf dear Safa. I spent a few days looking up a few things.
His apostacy even if he was angry or sarcastic or trying to wheedle out of paymenst doesn't amtter why he still apostacized because of theis hadith from Bukhariyy and Muslim(sahih):"A person may utter a word he thinks harmless, which will result in his falling in Hellfire a distance farther than what is between the east and west." At-Tirmidhiyy rated similar hadith Hasan "A person may utter a word he thinks harmless which results in his falling the depth of sevnty (70) years into hellfire" And other knowledge tells us that this 70 years is the boottom of hellfire where the apostates and blasphemers will reside FOREVER. SO you're husband by his own admission is now not a muslim but an apostate and the rules of an apostate are as follows:
"As a result of Apostacy, the apostate invalidates one's fast (SAWM), marriage before consumation, and marriage after the marital consumation if one didn't retern to Islam within the wife's post marital waiting period (IDDAH). The marraige contract of an apostate -with a male or female - with a muslim or non-muslim is not valid. It is unlawful (haram) to eat from what the apostate slaughters. The apostate does not inherit and his wealth is not inherited. He is not prayed for, washed, shrouded, or buried in Islamic cemetaries. His money (currency, properties, owned crops etc..) will be put in the Muslim treasury (fay')."
Now the part which refers to the divorce of you and your husband have further explination:
"The post-marital waiting period (^iddah) is the period the woman must wait before she is allowed to get married again. The divorced woman's ^iddah is 3 non-bleeding intervals. The pregnant woman's ^iddah ends when her pregnancy terminates--either by delivery, miscarriage, still born etc.... After the marriage is consumated, ie the first sexal intercourse between two married people has taken place, if one fo the two spouses apostatizes, the marriage contract is breached. This means the two are no longer married. If the apostate does not return to ISLAM until AFTER the ^iddah has lapsed (ended), then they need to conduct a new marriage contract if they wish to marry. However the one who apostatized returned to Islam within the ^iddah they would not need a ne marriage contract. They would still be husband and wife based on the first contract."
So based on all this Safa you have to wait til you're clean from after you're third period then call up your hubbex DIRECTLY and ask him first thing if he has Become Muslim again. If he says any form of NO. (again it doesn't matter his tone or anything) then you two are divorced by Islamic Law and you should inform him of this. (that would really stick in his caw eh?) BUT if he says yes a long time ago and you call BIL and ask him if he saw hubbex praying or saying shahada then you are still amrried and have to obtain divorce another way.
I didn't research about if he divorces you by candan laws is it also for Islamic law or not. This is based upon his apostacy from islam which has very real consiquenses for him and others around him.
I hope this info helps in gettin gyou a quick divorce from this terrible man. It sounds like the chidlren are better off without his drama in their lives and will grow richer with just you.
Be strong and Allah will help guide you to greatness.
4:47 PM
Safa be prepared for worse than this...my ex went so far to demand DNA tests for my sons...he said they were not his. I told him to F off because we did not need him...it was one of the best decisions I ever made. You will get thru this Insha'Allah....you have 5 precious gifts..and you guys are HAPPY...that's all that matters. Screw him.
5:16 PM
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