in a voice mail.....
.....the ex informs my oldest that he's coming to Canada for the March break.
He also tells her that ALL the kids will be staying with him in HIS apartment for the entire 10 days. (HIS? I suppose he means MM's apt)
I do have a choice in this, don't I?
posted by Safa at 5:30 PM
44 Comments:
What custody arrangements do you have through the court? Any outstanding child support obligations in areers?
Make sure you keep their passports under lock and key (preferably in a lock box at a bank), and get a visit schedule worked out, in writing, preferably with a notary and/or other witnesses.
9:16 AM
Assalamu `alaykum,
Yes of course you have a choice!! No judge will consent to children being removed from their home to stay 10 days with their father somewhere else. It would be too disruptive for their lives.
I also think he owes child support, no?
You should speak with your lawyer (or go to some of the free legal clinics, like the YMCA) and make sure you get everything in place and make sure that you tell them you're afraid of child abduction as well. I know sometimes courts give injunctions where neither parent can speak badly of the other in front of the children or else they lose custody, etc, etc.
You might want to see if you have enough of a case to argue for supervised visits, etc, etc.
All the best,
Caminante
9:40 AM
i think u might have the choice to call the police and report him as delinquent on all child support.
3:09 PM
He has a lot of cojones to demand "his" children, but who has been supporting them? You!
Yf you can, see if you can get him arrested for not paying child support. Even Islamically, he's a dead beat!
Hugs!
Anisah
3:46 PM
Just to follow up on my comment. I'm not a heartless B****. Isn't making sure your child has enough food and a roof over their head hte most important thing?
If your ex was working a minimum-wage job and giving as much as he could, that would be one thing. but your ex is jet-setting all over the world, and has a brand newly built place in Egypt. He needs to get his priorities straight!
4:47 PM
Wait, I'm confused. I thought MM was done and there was a new wifey.
7:25 PM
He is back togather wit MM, the new wife thing didnt work out,he married her islamiclly for 2 weeks then got a divorce,she was to young for him apparently...(he was 43 and she was 26)..:(
6:54 AM
Salam!
I agree with Anisah here. In a "REAL" Islamic country (not the jokes with have over in the ME), he would be dragged to court (and jail!) if he was delinquent on his child support.
Supporting your children is THE MAIN obligation of being a father. Providing a STABLE home environment is another big obligation. Imagine the kind of life your children would have had if they were with him, changing wives like changing clothes, going here and there, etc, etc. That's no way of raising children.
Again, I think that in a REAL Islamic country, he would have been judged UNFIT to be a father due to his unstable life, leaving the country for months at a time, not caring really about them, etc, etc.
If he really loved his children like mature father would do, he would try to make sure that his kids are taken care of, that they can study without worrying about bills, that they have money for clothes, books, college fund, study materials, entertainment, etc, etc.
So yes, try to see if you can get him to answer to the police why he's late on his payments.
9:20 AM
If he is paying child support , he has a right to see his kids.
In a "real islamic country" Safa wouldn't have her kids living with her with a non muslim man as a common law husband.
12:06 PM
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5:17 AM
Safaona,
In a "real Islamic country", Safa would be considered married since there's no "wedding ceremony" in ISlam. Sjon and safa have said in front of witnesses that they intend to live as husband and wife, Safa did not want any monetary mahr, and that is sufficient.
So in a "real Islamic country" Safa would be considered married (I'm sure you must have read the difference of opinion on whether a Muslim woman can marry a man of the book or not in Western countries given by traditional scholars such as Habib Ali Jifri, not to mention "reform" scholars), her ex would not have the kids (his deplorable behavior and patological lying makes him unfit as a father) and he would be forced to pay child support.
Finally, no one is denying him the right to see his kids. In fact, if you read Safa's past posts, when he was in Canada he DID see his kids. However, that is VERY different from disrupting their lives by trying to move them for 2 weeks to a different house, environment, etc.
5:20 AM
Amen Caminante - yes Safa you do have a choice - you are the custodial parent and as such you have the right to do what is best for your children - and I am afraid that for the youngest ones being with their dad for two weeks would not be good. Abdu does not even 'know' his biological father - Sjon is his dad - as has been suggested by others - you need to get things in order before he arrives and let him know what will be happening - if he is delinquent in child support - he will not see his kids at all - and no way in heck will they be staying with him for 10 days - set up a schedule and tell him when he will be allowed to see them.
10:51 AM
Caminante,there is a nikah, that is mandatory to be considered married.
And he is non muslim, they are living in sin,plus they are adopting non islamic lifestyle.
As a muslim, it is wrong to give the bad advice or to turn your head when you see a sister on the wrong path.On judgment's day, you will be asked about that.
3:25 PM
Marie, as I said before according to TRADITIONAL Islamic law, the "nikah" is simply when the "husband to be" and the "wife to be" declare that they live as spouses in front of 2 witnesses + mahr. That is a VALID nikah. A woman can say she waives the mahr. All the rest (party and what not) is cultural (the walima is a sunnah). So had Sjon been Muslim, we wouldn't be having this convo.
Now yes, I agree that the fact that Sjon is not a Muslims poses a problem. However, as I also said, there are an increasing number of scholars that are allowing marriages between people of the book and Muslimahs. You can agree or disagree with that, but DO NOT accuse me of "turning my head when I see a sister in the wrong path". If I thought she was in the wrong path I would have definitely told her. Scholars have disagreed on absolutely every issue since the death of the prophet, so to each its own.
8:56 PM
I agree with Caminante. There is nothing more to "nikah" than agreeing to be married (making that public which Safa has done) and the mahr. To insist there is a "ceremony" of some sort is commting the dreaded "bidah" lol. Anyway, while I realize there are scholars taking divergent opinions on just about every Islamic issue, my personal opinion is...to have a man who is decent, loving and seems to be taking the true role of a husband/father--regardless if he is Muslim or not, is far better than staying with a Muslim who seemed to be sinning--and still sinning--at every turn. The difference between Sjon and the ex is like night and day. I dont see Sjon insisting they renounce their Islam, but I did see the ex driving them away from Islam. Just the fact that he refuses to pay child support for the kids he fathered--while he had time in between his "nikahs" with God only knows how many other women--it just makes me want to vomit!!! Since when is an evil, non-practicing BAD Muslim better than a non-Muslim? I just dont get it!
10:44 PM
Asalaam alaikum wa rahmatullah sisters, I felt the need to jump in here and remind you that Allah subhana wa ta'ala said that the worst muslim and better than the best of disbelievers. And it is incumbent upon the believers to enjoin what is good and forbid what is wrong. Why is there so much justification of this situation being done by muslimahs? As for the difference of opinion marrying someone of the book...um, the man celebrates xmas, how can he be of the people of the book? The people of the book are Monotheist and believe just as Muslims do except they do not say Muhammad SAW is the messenger of Allah. They do not slander Allah SWT AND a'oothu billahi minash shaitan irajeem, saying Allah has a son. Sisters, if you are serious about being pleasing to Allah, adhere to His commands, follow the sunnah of our beloved Prophet SAW and avoid anything that will contribute to the weight of our bad deeds on the day of judgment to the best of our abilities.
3:43 AM
To clarify, I meant the worst Muslim is better than the best disbeliever. And I DO NOT mean that a woman should ever stay with a muslim man who is intentionally unjust and neglectful, BUT in the sight of Allah, Laa ilaha illalaa carries the greatest weight, and this can save a muslim from the hellfire no matter what, even after being cast into hell for some time, by Allah's Mercy inshaAllah, whereas a disbeliever who knows Islam but rejects it has no hope of being saved from the fire and Allah knows best. We have to be careful when denouncing the wrongs of Safa's ex to not compare him to her boyfriend a'oothu billah because the boyfriend is not muslim and the relationship is haraam and we all know this so I'm not saying that to be cruel in the least. I love Safa for Allah's sake, she even helped me when she was even struggling and she is in my du'a because I want the best for her and her children and most of all inshaAllah I would want for Allah to grant them jannah, ameen.
3:55 AM
Assalamu `alaykum,
As I have said before, we can agree to disagree and you can follow some scholar's opinion and you can follow another scholar's opinion.
Now first of all, a Christian is PER QURAN AND NUMEROUS HADITHS, a "Person of the book". Trinity was LONG ESTABLISHED BEFORE Islam came and the Allah swt YET calls them in the Qurna "People of the Book". So there's absolutely no difference of opinion among traditional scholars in this regard that Christians, even trinitarians, are "People of the book". So I hope that's settled.
Secondly, regarding the prohibition of women marrying "people of the book". As I said before it's a contentious issue. However, there is not ONE single verse in the Quran or hadith that prohibit women from marrying people of the book. In fact, the verse that it's often cited is a verse that forbids BOTH men and women from marrying mushrikeen. And it's quite obvious that it's not referring to people of the book since men can and do marry women of the book. And in Islam for fiqh of transactions, the principle of jurisprudence is that what's not forbidden is permitted. In fact, there are hadiths that show women who were married with people of the book. And the hadiths in which the prophet made the women leave their husbands were those in which:
a. The wife was married to an idolator of Makkah
b. The wife was married to a husband who was actively fighting Islam.
Even one of the prophet's daughter was married to a non-Muslim and the prophet allowed her to stay with him until he started fighting the Muslims (BIG mistake!). Then he was captured and as part of the freedom pact he was to leave the prophet's daughter.
5:45 AM
Just to finish since I don't want to comment on this post further (I don't think it was Safa's intent to start this discussion!).
1. We have differences of opinion. Some people believe that what Safa is doing is allowed and some believe it's not allowed.
2. Those who believe it's not allowed love Safa and want to advice her for her own good. Alhamdulillah for that.
3. In the end, Safa made her decision and will have to answer to Allah swt for her choices. In fact, WE WILL ALL have to answer to Allah swt for our choices.
The topic at hand was the ex coming and taking the children for 10 days. And I think the logical conclusion is that:
1. Rooting up children for 10 days from their home and their mom is not in the children's best interest.
2. The father MUST be paying child support before being allowed to see the children (esp. in this case since he can afford it!). If you want to "play father" then you have to first comply with the responsibilities as a father.
Finally, I think that even if we believed that was Safa is doing with Sjon is not allowed in Islam, I still VERY STRONGLY believe that the children should stay with her. What Safa's husband is doing (and has been doing) is also not allowed in Islam, he seems to have a VERY unstable life and I think that he's obviously leading a sinful life himself. So if the children did stay with him, they would not only grow up highly wounded (and messed up) from his volatile lifestyle but they would very possibly end up very FAR away (and likely hating) Islam because of his terrible example. So for the children's sake, sanity and Islam, obviously Safa is where they should be.
This is my last post on the topic and I'm sorry I've rambled so much.
5:59 AM
Wa alaikum asalaam wa rahmatullah, dear Caminante. With love and respect, how can the People of The Book be the same as the people of the fabrications that came after Allah revealed the Gospe and the Torah? Allah has told us of those alterations and lies and warned against believing in it in the Qur'an kareem. So how can you truly believe that the People of The Book - Allah's true revelation - be the same as the people of the falsehood and slander? No! They are not the same. Additionally, check tafseer of Qur'an. I am looking right now at surah al Baqara ayat 221 regarding the prohibition of marrying the disbelievers, and alongside it I have in front of me "Ma'ariful Qu'ran" volume 1 by Maulana Mufti Muhammad Shafi, pgs 555-559 discussing this ayat. It also explains who is considered the People of the Book. You can also check tafseer online, like Tafseer ibn Kathir or tafseer isb Qurtubi or others. But always check for authentic sources...to say we can marry polytheists, idolaters, etc. is a lie
7:49 AM
Forgive my multiple misspellings, I am using a mobile device that does not show the entire message box I am typing in so some of what I type, I am doing blindly. Caminante, I would be happy to share an excerpt from the tafseer I mentioned with you directly, and anyone else for that matter, and I request that you share with me something supporting what you have said regarding who the People of the Book are as well as it being permissible to marry those that you have described. Mumina82@gmail.com. We can always find a scholar to take something disliked or haraam and they have misconstrued it to make it ok, but check their sources. Qur'an, tafseer Qur'an, ahadith...
8:01 AM
From the Holy Qur'an, surah al Imran: ayat 69m it is the wish of a section of the People of the Book to lead you astray. But they shall lead astray (not you) but themselves, and they do not perceive." Ayat 71 "Ye People of the Book! Why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?" Ayat 78 "and verily among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues (as they read), so that you may think it is from the Book, but IT IS NOT FROM THE BOOK, and they say: "This is from Allah'" but it is not from Allah; and they speak a lie against Allah while they know it." ayat 113 - 114 "Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the verses of Allah during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (Islamic Monotheism) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism) and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous."
9:33 AM
Salaam Alaikum,
Saying that the secular celebration of Christmas excludes someone from being among the People of the Book, only shows how ready some Muslims are to label and divide everyone up in an "us vs. them" mentality. I no longer want anything to do with that kind of Islam.
The laws of the land (which Muslims are advised to abide by) also state that her ex-husband has broken the law by not supporting his children. I would go straight to the police and I WOULD NOT LET THEM VISIT WITH HIM WITHOUT COURT SUPERVISION.
Caminante, I attended one of the Doha Debates last year that discussed this exact same issue regarding Muslim women marrying People of the Book. It is a point up for debate as you have stated. I'm not surprised that some people (especially male scholars and those who are driven by the desire to see women subjugated by men) are fearful of this idea. Thanks for bringing up this point.
4:10 PM
What does any of this have to do with Safa's original question. She wants to know if she has a choice in whether or not the kids stay with their never-present father for 10 days.
Here is the deal: with rights come great responsibilities. How does one demand one thing, but not fulfill many many many of their responsibilities. He is required, at least, to support his children financially to the best of his ability. He has great financial capabilities, but he sends them NOTHING. He wouldn't even send his small children a gift unless they came to Egypt to get it themselves. What kind of father is that? Children are not disposable. One cannot play with them when they like and then toss them to the side when they are no longer interested.
Honestly Safa, you have full legal custody right? Unless he is willing to fulfill his financial obligations he shouldn't get that kind of visitation. Sure he can see them, but disrupting their lives for his own selfish desires is not acceptable.
I'm sure he loves and misses his children very much. The problem is that he must "put up or shut up" so to speak. His actions(or inactions) towards his children speak much louder than words.
6:56 AM
Asalaam alaikum, despite the differences in our thinking, I am grateful for u sisters and love u all for Allah's sake. I am disheartened that when anyone speaks out against the ill-things being expressed here against the teachings of this deen, it is met with opposition & "what does this have to do with what we are talking about?" Silence is the weakest form of faith when one observes something that is incorrect. What is incorrect is what we don't see eye to eye on maashaAllah. As for PM's comment about "us vs. them" Allah has made it clear that there is an us and a them. We still all co-exist on the earth, and I am sure the boyfriend is a very good and loving man inshaAllah, but Allah says: "O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as 'Auliya (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but 'Auliya of each other. And if any amongst you takes them as 'Auliya, then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)"5:51;;;;;;;;;;;
7:43 AM
"Xmas" is a religious holiday of the Christians who are upon the misteachings. Allah never revealed any book saying he has taken a son, that the supposed son Jesus (AS) was crucified and died for our sins. Nor that Jesus (AS) is God or partnered with Allah,. Celebrating those holidays is not just to do it, it is a religious festivity so when I said the man celebrates it, it was drawing reference to the fact that he apparently ascribes to a religion other than what Allah has made as the true way of life. I am speaking to u Muslimahs, not trying to appeal to anyone else...I am trying to remind you because we all need to be reminded and it is up to Allah if it helps you or not, even if it provokes thought to review our own understandings of certain aspects of our deen.
7:59 AM
Back to what Caminante said about even the Trinitarians being of the people of the Book...from Qur'an: "O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The messiah Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glorified is He (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of Affairs." 4:171. If I have said anything incorrect , it is from me, and if I have offended anyone, I ask for your forgiveness.
8:09 AM
I can't accept the "worst Muslim is better than the best non-Muslim" thing. No effing way.
Is her ex, who is a deadbeat dad and doesn't really care about his kids unless HE wants to see HIS kids, and who pays little/no child support, better than a man who is being a father to five children who aren't biologically his (the only father the little one knows) and who is there for them and loves them and their mom? I don't buy that for a second! Safa has found a great man, regardless of religion. Calling her ex a pig is making the pig look bad.
Stop being judgmental about her life. She is talking about her children, not asking you if how she is living her life is haram or not.
Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
Lots of hugs!
Anisah
11:48 AM
Just a thought -
If Safa holds the kids back, this gives the ex ammunition to say, nope, I'm not giving money, she doesn't let me see my kids.
While I wouldn't ship them over to his apartment (where ever that may be), supervised visits could be a good idea. Even if he isn't the best dad in the world, he still is there dad (and wasn't he an ok dad before this whole polygany thing started? Maybe that guy is still in there somewhere, just waiting for an act of kindness to bring him out).
1:12 PM
This is so sad, this muslim woman was tested, instead of helping her stay on the right path, sisters are helping her stray away from Islam.
You can kid yourselves in believing that her actions are ok, acceptable in Islam, but they are not.
If they were, don't you think that there would be zinah, no, everyone would say they had the intention to marry!!!!.
You are saying that her man is supporting the family?? by her writings, it's not the case, she is struggling to pay the rent, he's an immigrant here.
Sisters supporting this will have to answer to Allah,it's her decision, but it's our duty to point the wrong in it.
She is also leading her children away from Islam, read her daughter's blog.
She survived a really bad marriage to now turn her back and celebrate christmas, live with a non muslim man ,is drinking alcohol and what else will be next???
4:22 PM
Sisters Marie and Mumina, may Allah reward your efforts, mashaAllah.
Your good advice, adab, and sincere hope and love for your sisters in Islam is on the straight path.
I am sorry for those sisters who wish to delude themselves into choosing what they wish to believe to be true (even more sorry that they are publicizing these falsehoods, sowing confusion in the ummah and in society in general), even after they have said the shahada, and know that it is not they but Allah who decrees truth, right and wrong, as witnessed in Qur'an and sunnah.
Sisters, please be careful. The worst muslim, meaning most basically, the muslim who has the most difficulty adhering to what they know to be right, is BETTER than any non-believer SIMPLY because they say: Lah illaha illa Allah. Knowing, believing and declaring that there is No God but Allah (and Muhammad pbuh is his messenger) means that they are testifying to the One Truth. Anyone following or worshipping anything else is simply living in either ignorance, or disbelief - which is never accepted by Allah.
May Allah forgive us and guide us all.
6:16 PM
p.s.
Regarding the kids & their dad thing...in my opinion, he may or may not be the greatest dad (who knows for sure?), but they ARE his kids, and I think he has the right to see them. Supervised visits maybe, sure, whatever - but from what it sounds like, he consistently tries to make contact and have a relationship with them (however sour or not those efforts may turn out - he does try).
Maybe he doesn't want to give money because he doesn't want to support a lifestyle that he doesn't agree with or have any say in, including how his kids are raised. We know that he said he would want to take all the kids...one reason may be because he would prefer to raise them in a way that he thinks is correct (or at least more correct, in his opinion). You can understand from this point of view why he wouldn't choose to financially support a lifestyle he doesn't agree with - it's not because he doesn't want his kids in his life, or not because he doesn't want what he considers to be the best for them.
For years, I've been wondering how readers can condemn this man 100% without ever hearing one SINGLE word from him directly. Recall the story in the Qur'an about Prophet Dawud, who asks Allah's forgiveness for making a judgement between two disputing people before hearing both sides of the story:
"One day, as David was praying in his prayer niche, he ordered his guards not to allow anyone to interrupt him, but two men managed to enter and disturb him. "Who are you?" he asked. One of the men said: "Do not be frightened. We have a dispute and have come for your judgment." David said: "What is it?" The first man said: "This is my brother, has ninety nine sheep, and I have one. He gave it to me but took it back." David, without hearing from the other party said: "He did you wrong by taking the sheep back, and many partners oppress one another, except for those who are believers."
The two men vanished like a cloud, and David realized that they were two angels sent to him to teach him a lesson. He should not have passed a judgment without hearing from the opposing party.
Almighty Allah told us of this incident in the Qur'an:
"And has the news of the litigants reached you? When they climbed over the wall into (his) Mihrab (a praying place or a private room). When they entered in upon David, he was terrified of them, they said: Fear not! (We are) two litigants, one of whom has wronged the other; therefore judge between us with truth, and treat us not with injustice, and guide us to the Right Way."
"Verily, this is my brother (in religion) has ninety nine ewes, while I have only one ewe, and he says: 'Hand it over to me,' and he overpowered me in speech."
David said immediately without listening to the opponent: "He has wronged you in demanding your ewe in addition to his ewes. And, verily, many partners oppress one another, except those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and they are few."
And David guessed that We have tried him and he sought Forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned to Allah in repentance. So We forgave him that, and verily, for him is a near access to Us, and as good place of final return Paradise."
O David! Verily! We have placed you as a successor on earth, so judge you between men in truth and justice. And follow not your desire for it will mislead you from the Path of Allah. Verily! Those who wander astray from the Path of Allah shall have a severe torment, because they forgot the Day of Reckoning." (Ch 38:21-26 Quran)
http://www.angelfire.com/on/ummiby1/dawud.html
7:12 PM
Safa, I wouldn't let him see them for so long. If he is not paying support, then he has NO RIGHT to see them. It is very easy to MAKE a child, it is difficult to be a dad.
I can't believe this people here saying bad things about Sjon, WTF matter about the religion? HE IS ACTING AS THE DAD, he cares for the children, he cooks for them, he cleans. Yeah, he can't work, not an easy choice for him and not because he doesn't want to work, is a legal thing, and as soon as he gets his papers he will be supporting HIS new family, you shouldn't judge him for that reason. Sjon has never encouraged any member of the family to leave Islam, not even to Safa. Have you ever thought he might be one day muslim? You never know!
I left Islam because people like some of the writers here kept making my life so difficult and terrifying, instead of encouraging me to take it slowly and learn on my own path, they wanted me to follow their school or thought, if I didn't then I was acting haraam.
All the people judging should remember each individual be asked what they did with their lives, so just stop worrying about if Sjon is muslim or not, that's safa's problem.
And I don't see how any god would consider a better safa's ex or people like him rather than sjon. That would be a very unfair god.
11:19 AM
2 wrongs don't make a right, yes, as I wrote it's her decision, but as muslims we cannot support it, we have Allah to answer to.
If you left Islam for these reasons, you were never really called by Allah, Islam is submitting to Allah, no one says it's an easy path, but you can not find excuses for others.
So he can't work, do you think it would be fair for her ex to pay for her new boyfriend???
There's a lot of bad decisions that were made, we only get one side of the story here.
I pray that she reaches to Allah for help turning her life around.
12:52 PM
Marie wrote:
"So he can't work, do you think it would be fair for her ex to pay for her new boyfriend???"
Marie, how about he pay what the court said he had to pay for his kids? It wouldn't matter if she had 5 boyfriends living there, or his entire family. Her having someone else is NO EFFIN' EXCUSE for him not supporting his kids. If he uses that as an excuse, he is a sorry excuse for a human being. I can't even call him a man, cause he isn't. I am glad that the kids have a father there for them, even though he's not their biological father, who loves them and does more for them than their bio father does. Blood is not thicker than water.
Yes, I know we are only hearing one side of the story. But sometimes, one side is the facts, the other side is excuses and lies. If you asked my ex about why he abandoned our son, he would probably have a lot of lies and excuses. The truth is that he abandoned his son (actually left when I was pregnant and abandoned both of us), no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Anisah
1:02 PM
I have full legal custody of the kids....with no outlined support in these papers. He had promised me that he'd go to Egypt and start sending money without having to have it legally obligated of him.
I believed that he'd keep his word. One of my many mistakes.
At the moment, I'm filling out support papers with an organization to help me get it all in order...(like legal aid).....
My many, many thanks to Anisah who is simply calling it like it is.
~I personally can't see how the kids will stay with him for 10 days...his son doesn't even know him and the 6 year old came back last year wounded and hurt yet again. Because no matter how much quality time he'll spend with her for those 10 days....he WILL abandon her again. And again the year after, and yet again.
Much more to say, but all these posts have made me emotional.....perhaps tomorrow, I'll talk about it all....
Love and thanks to all.....
6:43 PM
I understand Brujita. I have been seriously giving thought to leaving Islam FAR behind myself because of the way I see it being implemented all around me. I am sure someone will come along and insult me (like "marie" insulted you) by saying I never really was Muslim or called by God to begin with. The Muslim judge/jury (like those on this thread) have an excuse for everything that is supposed to absolve them of their narrow-minded bad behavior and rudeness. In the meantime, they drive more and more people away from Islam.
No one is saying that everything Safa does is perfect or applauded by Allah. But why can't we just allow her to make her own decisions without judging her? Why can't we discuss the problem at hand -- which is the fact that this deadbeat dad is going to pop in the kids' lives for 10 days in a few months -- rather than start attacking sjon (who BTW, is a HELL of a lot better dad than the so-called Muslim deadbeat EVER was)?
And for those mannerless "friends" who are picking the flesh from Safa and Sjon's backs (and I don't mean Mumina who has had much better manners than the rest of you sitting in the jurors' seats), might I suggest that you really needn't stick around to post contentious remarks on her blog?
7:30 PM
PM as always....you are a rare gem....love ya honey...
4:20 AM
Salam alaikum sisters...
Re the kids visit with Baba: Safa I think it's admirable that you want the kids to maintain a relationship with their dad, even at the risk of them feeling hurt by him not living up to how a dad should be. It's the courageous route and the right one inshallah.
His role as their father is not contingent on him paying child support, and is not supplanted by any new man in their mom's life.
And I'm saying this as a stepmom myself, to kids whose own mom is not doing right by them. I really struggle with my own self to try to be sure that I don't denigrate or interfere with their relationship, the bond and importance of which is deeply imprinted in their heart, and ordained by God... however troubled it may be.
That said, their Baba's financial responsibility towards them is also ordained by God! Not optional... But it is a separate issue from their emotional bonds. Good for you though to seek all means toward maintaining the kids rights to financial support.
The tricky bit as far as maintaining the father-kid relationship is to try to help the kids name and recognize what's not going right with the other parent, and help them process it, so they don't come to feel that type of neglectful or manipulative treatment is "normal" or that they "deserve" it...
Safa it sounds like you really go out of your way to help them sort through their complicated feelings of love, anger, confusion, etc. about Baba, which is great.
I think though that some precautions are in order still for the visit - as you said, phone number and address where they would be: but verified - and/or registered through the courts. A cheap cell phone for the kids would be prudent - you can also download software so the phone can be GPS located. You keep the passports, yes. And a reasonable, age-appropriate visit schedule, yes...
8:34 AM
The other thing that bears revisiting is the thread about the "worst muslim" being better than the "best nonbeliever" in terms of a choice of marriage partner...
I'm not bringing this up to debate the individual worth of any person - only Allah knows what is in anyone's heart and where their end will be...
But it seemed like there was a lot of outrage over the concept in general and I just wanted to emphasize that Muslim is a state one continually seeks and earns - not any kind of free pass to do wrong and get away with it...
So this does NOT mean that any neglectful wife-beating drug-dealing thug is considered the best husband so long as his name is Ahmed or Mohammad. A Muslim "identity" means nothing if you aren't backing it up with sound iman and good deeds. The Prophet, Allah's peace and prayers on him, said "Whosoever is slowed down by his deeds will not be hastened forward by his lineage"
And there are a lot of wrong actions and beliefs that can negate a person's Islam...
Committing a sin or wrong action does not remove us from Islam if we recognize what we're doing is wrong in the sight of Allah. Everyone sins, falls short, struggles - but the key is knowing right from wrong, and turning back towards Allah in repentance. And the doors of repentance are always open!
But those who do wrong and convince themselves that what they're doing is right and okay, while going against Allah's commands - this takes a person out of Islam while they remain in this state, since they are taking their own desires as their guide, rather than clear direction from Allah.
A Muslim husband is one who fears Allah and believes in the Quran and the Sunnah and that he will have to answer to Allah for his deeds. Kindness, fairness, tenderness, mutual support are not optional - they are essential attributes for a Muslim! And most especially in marriage... Just the same as giving Allah his due in our worship, these qualities of kindness and good character are part of doing what He has commanded us and avoiding what He has forbidden us... The Prophet, Allah's prayers and peace on him, said "the best among you are the best to their family, and I am the best to my family" !
8:56 PM
- - and, I know that this thread seems to have left people a little raw. I want to clarify that I'm NOT intending to call into question the Islam of anyone (here or otherwise) who says "la illaha illa Allah" ... Anybody who considers herself a Muslim is my sister in Islam, and I wouldn't presume to think otherwise. And those who are not Muslim I am a sister to in our mutual human family.
I only wanted to share some thoughts that this conversation had brought up for me, about issues I've been thinking through quite a bit myself.
Peace to all, and healing...
9:13 PM
Wonderful advice "swimmyfish" on:
"I think though that some precautions are in order still for the visit - as you said, phone number and address where they would be: but verified - and/or registered through the courts. A cheap cell phone for the kids would be prudent - you can also download software so the phone can be GPS located. You keep the passports, yes. And a reasonable, age-appropriate visit schedule, yes..."
absolutely great advice!!!
9:47 PM
"I felt the need to jump in here and remind you that Allah subhana wa ta'ala said that the worst muslim and better than the best of disbelievers."
You know who would make a comment like this...the WORST Muslim!
9:50 PM
Getting away from the Muslim commentary, I have to comment on the idea that your ex does not deserve to see the kids. That may be true, but irrelevant. The kids deserve to have a relationship with their father. Even if he's a deadbeat. Completely unfairly, if you try to stand in the way, you become the bad guy, because kids just don't care as much about the finances as we do. That being said, and you should certainly talk to your lawyer about this, a voicemail to your daughter is not an acceptable request for visitation. You may want to reach out to him, as distasteful as that is, and tell him you've heard he plans to visit, and if he wants to see the kids, he has to coordinate with you, not your daughter. Or perhaps better, have your lawyer communicate this to him. Noncustodial absentee parents, by and large, do not get to set the terms of visitation.
10:57 AM
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